Travis Dickerson Recording Studios Forum

hey there bhead51 and me_again, yes o yes Chomsky is such a rich subject I thought I\'d start a new thread before pandemoniumfromamerica got completely submerged:

Here\'s a great link to lots of online materials by Chomsky:

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm

It also includes a few exerpts from Hegemony or Survival.

Here what I think is a very interesting so-called seminal essay from an early collection of essays by Chomsky called American Power and the New Mandarins:

The Responsibility of Intellectuals:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/12172

Finally, a while back I found this link to a very well-argued critique of Chomsky from the right that gave me pause.  I know the guy is just trying to bring him down, but I tell you he knows how to make a dispassionate, seemingly fact-based argument.   This is a very powerful ploy.  Now it\'s obvious the guy likes to quote out of context, which makes me immediately suspicious of him.  But I\'m not super fluent on Chomsky so I was hoping someone here might be able to counter his argument more easily and with more substance than I can at this point.  In any case, it\'s good to know what the other side is saying:

http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/21/may03/chomsky.htm

Megan

Good idea for a thread, megan, thanks for the links. I\'ll be back...

Megan - you\'re amazing.   I\'m going to check out your links tonight.

Well, I just wrote a big response only to be told that I need to fill in the name field, and lost the whole thing.  So here\'s a quick run-down, anyways:

Chomsky has "rationalized" 9-11 in the sense that he has attempted to understand why Al Qaeda attacked the U.S. and what the U.S.\'s role in terrorism is.  This can be read about in the first chapter of his book 9-11.

As for "denazification," check out the following link, you can get an idea of what Chomsky is saying there (definately appopriate given the author\'s quotation methods - check towards the bottom of the essay or search for the word "denazification"):

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/1971----.htm

As for Pol Pot & Chomsky, probably the most widespread and repeated attempt to criticize him (it\'s a dead horse by now), check out an article by Edward S. Herman, which also deals with some other criticisms of Chomsky:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=3948

As for Mao, it is true that Mao made some incredibly positive acheivements (as did Castro).  These acheivements included land redistribution to the poor, which would inevitably result in violence given that there was a fuedal landlord class that owned all the land.  It also included high employment, esp. for women, and an agricultural boom prior to the famine that came with the Great Leap Forward (1958-62).  The famine occured partially because of Mao\'s new policy that made food and water free (decreasing worker incentive and thus productivity) and largely because China experienced the worst weather conditions of the century during this time period (which led to serious declines in food output).  Soviet withdrawal of support also had a detrimental effect on China\'s economy.

Keeping with Mao, Chomsky noted in his book "9-11" that the famine of 1958-62 is often considered a crime of communism.  However, the 120 million that starved to death in India since 1948, when they kicked out Britian, is never considered a crime of democracy by mainstream scholars.  [glb]This point should not be understated. [/glb] What does that say about modern intellectuals?

As for the Sudanese bombing and death tolls, I\'ll have to ask Chomsky and get back to you on that.  The criticism here may have merit.

I must reiterate that anyone who has actually read Chomsky\'s work understands that he never defended the crimes of the Khmer Rouge, the National Liberation Front (Vietnam), or Mao.  He is on record, contrary to what Windschuttle says, for acknowledging the severity of all of their crimes.  For example, he grouped in Mao with Hitler and Stalin when referring to Sukarno\'s (Indonesia) 1965-6 massacre (U.S.-supported).  It is common for those critical of Chomsky to portray him as a defender of violent regimes, an attack based on no evidence whatsoever.

-bhead51

megan, great idea to move to a new thread.  thanks for the links - heading there in a minute.  i just wanted to say it\'s great to see/hear people really thinking the US situation through.  early childhood in 60\'s Brasil gives me a different prespective maybe, but things are way WAY outta hand.  

Chomsky is a great one to check out, so are several others, Al Fraken was mentioned, i would also say Amy Goodman is a very valuable person in this dialogue, so are Mark LeVine and Mike Davis.  

infact, check out Twilight of Empire - they\'ve all got pieces in there, and page 21, Mike Davis\' account of Britain\'s sojourn into Iraq has DIRECT reflection of the whole Fallujah mess.

yes, gkg, Twilight of Empire is quite provocative- no Chomsky in it but like you say lots of other perspectives in words and photos- really well edited and arranged I thought- it\'s relatively cheap for the high quality of the binding and printing although a person may also be able to read in it for free at a bookstore- the front cover shot is particularly provocative I thought-  see it and more info about the innards here:

http://www.percevalpress.com/twilight.html

bhead51, I bet things got really loud when your post disappeared- thanks for redoing it like that-
processing processing

Quotea person may also be able to read in it for free at a bookstore

I believe it\'s only available at Perceval Press - or am I wrong? I like to look before buying, but will still purchase from Perceval as they seem to support artists who may not otherwise have their ideas/stuff published. Kind of like Travis!

What a topic you opened Megan. I haven\'t had a chance to get to all the links and opinions everyone has contributed so far. It\'s darned distracting when your suppose to be working!  

I went over and had a look at the Perceval Press site and it seems they now have their books in some LA bookstores. Kind of makes me wish I lived in the area so I could browse before buying. I did buy Twilight of Empire off the web though, a while back, it sounded so interesting, and it is just as it sounded. A really eclectic mix of interviews, articles, photos, poems, very interesting reading.

I\'m still slogging through the Chomsky & anti-Chomsky links. Thanks for those, Megan and bhead51.

I like how independent producers like TDRS and Perceval Press want to communicate.  I was actually thinking of people who couldn\'t afford the book going into bookstores to read it if they so willed. I like the idea of this especially since Twilight of Empire is so timely-  
   
Megan

also Perceval Press just signed with both american and european distributors I hear so I don\'t know what other bookstores their titles will be in when that shakes out but for sure I saw a stack at Cody\'s on Telegraph in Berkeley and City Lights in North Beach in San Francisco has them no doubt Modern Times on Valencia in SF too (Modern Times is really easy to access via BART rapid transit)(I hope this helps someone even though it\'s so geographically narrow)

Megan

Not trying to hijack the thread (HONEST!), but is anyone else into Jello Biafra\'s spoken word releases?  I believe Jello\'s label (Alternative Tentacles) has released some of his speeches.

yes Jello is brilliantly wordy-  
 
I just noticed how Lynsey Addario, whose photos are featured all through Twilight of Empire and are worth a thousand words, has one of her photos on the front page of todays New York Times- here it is and another-  
 
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/04/13/international/14IRAQready.html  
 
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/04/13/international/13cnd-fallujah.1.html  
 
And here\'s some from her online portfolio:  
 
http://pro.corbis.com/creative/services/assignments/photographers/laddario/Photojournalism/zoom.asp?imgnum=1

there are many good photogs but only a few who can really capture and evoke in the way that Lynsey Addario can.  it almost feels like a painting.

Chomsky on the Sudanese factory issue:

In response to a request from FAIR Chomsky sent this letter to Salon.com. He wonders if they are going to print it (given his past experiences trying to engage liberals about falsehoods about him) and wonders what lie they will attach to this letter.

To the editor:

I understand that questions have been raised about my reference, in a telephone interview with Susan Hansen (Salon Jan. 16), to estimates of the casualties resulting from the US bombing of the al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan in August 1998. Several observations:

1. Hansen opens by quoting my statement, in an earlier interview, that the bombing is responsible for "killing unknown numbers of people (no one knows because...no one cares to pursue it)." That is, there have been no serious studies, by Human Rights Watch or anyone else, as I made explicit.

2. A phrase in a telephone interview does not have quotes, details, or footnotes; that is self-evident. As everyone understands, to determine the accuracy of such informal comments one turns to what is in print, which in this case is particularly clear: the collection of interviews that Hansen cites at the outset as the basis for this interview, "9-11" (Seven Stories press), easily available in print and electronically for two months prior to the Salon interview.

3. In "9-11," the facts are stated accurately and precisely. With regard to HRW, the relevant paragraph reads:

Human Rights Watch immediately reported that as an immediate consequence of the bombing, "all UN agencies based in Khartoum have evacuated their American staff, as have many other relief organizations," so that "many relief efforts have been postponed indefinitely, including a crucial one run by the U.S.-based International Rescue Committee [in a government town] where more than fifty southerners are dying daily"; these are regions in "southern Sudan, where the UN estimates that 2.4 million people are at risk of starvation," and the "disruption in assistance" for the "devastated population" may produce a "terrible crisis."

The source for the other allusion in the Salon phone interview is also given accurately and precisely:

Germany\'s Ambassador to Sudan writes that "It is difficult to assess how many people in this poor African country died as a consequence of the destruction of the Al-Shifa factory, but several tens of thousands seems a reasonable guess" (Harvard International Review, Summer 2001).

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