Anyone else doing NaNoWriMo? (http://www.nanowrimo.org) It\'s taking all my time this month, but after doing it last year I just had to again. Cranking out 50K words in 30 days might seem like a chore, but it\'s actually quite liberating! So I\'m just curious to see if I\'m the only one here doing it.
(Might seem a little off-topic for this forum, if so this post will die a natural death!) ;)
I hope not, I think the written word deserves as much attention as any other art form here.
good for you!!
i\'m buried with working on pieces for a competitive show in January, so no time to spare, but would love to see what you come up with when you\'re done!! :-*
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Travis!
gkg, I\'ll have to see how it all ends up. Most NaNo novels are pretty crappy (mine I\'m sure will be no exception). I\'m hoping I might be able to edit one of the 2 into something saleable, but who knows.
Feeling pretty good though, because I\'m over 27,000 words and it\'s only Day 13! ;D
I\'m rooting for ya Oldfolkie!
What a great idea. I will have to do this next year, I had not heard of this before, so thank you for the heads up. Sooooo any hints as to what you are writting about?
Thanks, sngwthme, it\'s a fun thing to do, and I\'m now up to 31,290 words which is on a 2,000 word per day pace. Can\'t quite believe it. The target for midnight November 30th is 50,000 words.
Well, a hint. OK. It\'s about a bunch of university students in Canada in 1970. They meet on a long weekend. Relationships ensue. Music is heavily involved. It\'s NOT autobiographical, but definitely set in a time and place I know well.
I\'ll let you know if & when I hit 50,000!
Whoa, I just checked out the website and I love this!! I am all for getting rid of fear, which is what this idea does...just begin writing and go for it! Make mistakes, it\'s okay! I love it!
It reminds me of the same approach to music, such as experimental music...just having FUN and learning and collaborating.
You don\'t have to be an expert to do music, or write, or do art...just do it!!
Love it. Thanks for the link and for doing it.
It\'s not too late, I think I\'ll sign up too!
Wow, hawkfinger, that\'s ambitious, but I wish you luck! ;D
I managed to keep on my 2000 word per day pace, and finished up this afternoon with 51,600 words. Somehow, the NaNo site thinks it\'s actually 51,716, and who am I to argue with them? ::) But I\'m really pleased. I actually finished a semi-coherent story (continuity is awful, but that can be fixed) and did the required word count 5 days ahead of schedule.
May I wish equivalent success to everyone with a writing project on the go! (now, if only I could find somebody to publish this sucker ;) )
Just read this post, and Way to Go!
I think any project that we set out to acomplish cnd come to end of with satisfaction, whatever the material outcome is definately a success. Finding satisfaction in life and completing our personal goals is what it is about. Good luck with finding a publisher, let us know,OK?
Well done again! :)
This sounds really cool! I\'ll have to check it out. I have two fiction pieces going right now. One is a period piece and the other is a present day piece I started writing for my older daughter. She\'s loving it so I may be onto something. ;D I also have a nonfiction piece going about how I grew up and all. Not a boohoo thing. I showed it to a friend I knew would be honest and she described it as "funny and horrific, touching and enlightening" I figured that might not be a bad thing. LOL!
[edited to add] I don\'t think I can pull this off by the end of the month. Of the two fictions I have, one has 18,106 words and the other has 8,847 words. And the nonfiction has 4,226 words. My best friend is going to change all the names in it and such, basically to protect me. LOL! And that hasn\'t been done yet. And I\'ve been writing it for almost six months so it wouldn\'t qualify anyway. I have to do it in stops and starts. Putting your life out there is not always easy. Although, I\'m finding if I write about something, it isn\'t in my head so much anymore. And I let go of some unpleasant thoughts when it goes away a bit. Does that make any sense? [end edit]
I\'ll have to look at the site and see because the two fiction pieces I started a couple of weeks ago.
Thanks, oldfolkie!
And, deblee, great penguin!
QuoteI don\'t think I can pull this off by the end of the month. Of the two fictions I have, one has 18,106 words and the other has 8,847 words. And the nonfiction has 4,226 words. My best friend is going to change all the names in it and such, basically to protect me. LOL! And that hasn\'t been done yet. And I\'ve been writing it for almost six months so it wouldn\'t qualify anyway. I have to do it in stops and starts. Putting your life out there is not always easy. Although, I\'m finding if I write about something, it isn\'t in my head so much anymore. And I let go of some unpleasant thoughts when it goes away a bit. Does that make any sense?
I do know what you mean about putting yourself on the line. There are some things in all of the fiction pieces I\'ve written so far that I might edit out because of that. Less so as I write more though, as if I\'m getting them out of my system.
It\'s probably too late for this year, but one of the things you should know about NaNoWriMo is that it\'s completely anonymous. You write to prove to yourself that you can, and you "anonymize" your work by letter substitutions before running it through their word count validator. Nobody else need ever read it but you and whoever you show it to, so you don\'t need to worry about name changes as such. On the other hand, if it turns out really good, you might work it up as a sale! A few of the thousands of NaNo novels have actually made it into print.
Nice to know there are other writers here! I figure writing cuts across about as many borders as music does, and they both impact each other too. Not that I\'ve had much published outside of technical (work) stuff, but I can always dream, and work on it, too. ;D
This makes 2 years in a row that I\'ve completed the 50K words within the 30 day window. Feels really good! 8) Now I need to sit me down and write something saleable. ::)
not to butt in on this lovly thread of writing projects but I have been writing ever sense, I found I had a nak for it, I have a working in progress Sci Fi Crime Drama in progress of a revamp and if I can ever sepperate the good from the bad, somethings I wrote in high school and college and somethings that happened to Me that I just had to get out of My head and lastly Poetry all else falls by for poetry....
much like Music where sometimes I speak thought sometimes I can not and the music overwhelms, that way of thinking.
Chris
QuoteThis makes 2 years in a row that I\'ve completed the 50K words within the 30 day window. Feels really good! Now I need to sit me down and write something saleable.
aye, there\'s the rub! even if you can write in a saleable manner, finding someone interested in publishing it is a long hard schlog. many publishers won\'t look at work that doesn\'t come from an agent, and many agents won\'t look at work that doesn\'t come from a recommendation. many writers are paranoid because it\'s a cut throat business so it\'s hard at times to get a recommendation.
back in the early 90s i had a detective novel that a very well known and reputable agent really liked. i had taken the leap and sent it to her cold. she sent me her few tweak notes and told me she would love to represent me but... the protagonist was gay, and she didn\'t really rep "that sort of work". we\'re talking a detective novel, not a sex laden romance novel. she said if i could rework the character and make him straight, then she\'d love to work with me on it.
i could have done that. i might even have found a good publisher and have started a hot new career... but it went against my principles. i could have offered to write a different book, but even that rankled me. so, i just walked away from it.
That\'s horrible gkg. I don\'t know what it is, but there are "fashions" in publishing like everything else. I bet it would get a better shake today. Maybe with a different agent? Now, what I\'ve been hearing is that "chick lit" (whatever that is when it\'s at home) is the thing to sell these days. Hmmm. Don\'t know -- my NaNo novel might sort of fit that label, might not.
And Chris, sounds like good stuff! This music & writing all comes from the same place.
ah, it\'s ok, but thanks sweetie. i moved on and i\'m happy painting now... maybe some day.
now, think "chick flick" and parse that down... check this out - http://www.authorsontheweb.com/features/0402-chicklit/chicklit.asp you see what i mean?
Congratulations Oldfolkie! Great Job!!
Check your PM.
I\'ve been super busy with work and all. oldfolkie, good for you and it\'s a comfort to know it\'s anonymous unless I want it to be otherwise. I\'m still writing. Fictionalizing events from one\'s life is hard. A friend tried to fictionalize an event I was trying to write about. I was getting stuck at this one point. She tried fictionalizing it and I read it and told her it was nothing like that. I dreamt about it that night and woke myself up, flipped open my laptop at four in the morning and put it all in, every bit. My friend said when she read it the next day, she felt like it was her in the river. It scared her. That\'s the point I guess. Make the reader feel it.
gkg, a lot of people have told me the literary business is cutthroat. They said I\'m too trusting and will be taken for a ride. My hubby and his father will handle all negotiations, he says. Since dad-in-law is an attorney, I don\'t worry too much. I have heard about agents taking a gargantuan cut and the actual author getting peanuts. I\'m really glad to have them involved when it\'s finished. Hubby has big plans for this poor book. He\'s like an expectant father who says "My son will play for the Red Sox!" before the child is born! LOL!
Thanks for your kind words. oldfolkie, maybe we can visit about writing sometimes and bounce ideas back and forth!
Take care and be safe,
Stuffy
I think it\'s great you\'ve got all that support, stuffy. My husband is very supportive of my various artistic gyrations too. Which include music & photography as well as writing. He doesn\'t even mind reading my poetry - now THAT\'s true love ;)
Would love to trade writing chat, who knows when but we\'ll find a time.
sounds good! :) gotta turn in now!
I was just wondering if you had any luck, any of you?
I am currently writing a novel. I'm up to 65,000 words and still working, but the story has come to a screeching halt. I am sitting here frustrated and I remembered seeing this thread so I decided to read the whole thing. I was amazed at how many of you wrote or that is to say write.
I'm not really looking to publish, not that it wouldn't be better then a wet dream (joke), but I don't have those kinds of delusions of grandeur. I'll be happy to finish and have friends and family read it and hopefully like it as well.
I was also wondering if any of you have simply considered publishing to the web? That is my goal; however there is quite a lot of copy written music and lyrics in the story. I don't currently know what all the legal ramifications are, but I will discover them before I infringe on someone else's art.
Anyway, I would love to read some of your stuff, please consider posting it to the web and giving us the link.
P.S. because of this forum I had to put a Buckethead song in the book ;D
Depends what you mean by luck, buswolley. I\'m certainly no expert, but I\'m glad to share the little I know & have experienced.
Both times I have done NaNoWriMo I have finished with more than 50K words and a completed story. I think I\'m improving my writing, too. Both of those are accomplishments in themselves!
The only thing I\'ve had published so far in traditional media (apart from journal articles for my day job) is one lone poem in a poetry magazine. I\'ve also had a couple of poems recognized on-line, in the Poem of the Day at Poets Against The War. All of that felt good! I\'d like to publish more, sure, but there\'s a lot of luck involved apart from all the hard work. And there\'s this day job that consumes a lot of my time & energy... ::)
I\'m not up on copyright laws in the USA, but I did go to a copyright seminar a few weeks ago here (Canada), and one thing they mentioned was the difficulty of getting ASCAP permissions to quote song lyrics, and that getting permission for those is a MUST. I think quoting titles is fine, though. And copyright applies pretty much the same on the web as in print. But you\'d need to check out on-line sources, or there may be some reference materials on copyright at your local library.
I\'ve seriously considered //www.lulu.com for publishing a poetry chapbook, and may yet pursue that. They seem to be a pretty good place to deal with. If I ever write a novel I think is saleable, I guess I\'ll make the effort to find an agent though, and go through channels like the rest of the writing world.
Good luck with your book! It\'s great to hear from another writer. ;D
I think I just meant how was it going, writing, publishing, whatever you wanted to share. I am sooo curious about other artist's work I was just looking to be impressed. I was hoping some one had posted to the web so I could enjoy their work. Do you have the links to your poetry? I have no skill for that art form, so I admire people who do. If you ever want to share your any of your work, message me I'll send you my e-mail address, I would love to read it. I figure published works are already polished; I like to see something grow and mature. I can't promises to read all 50,000 words, but I will do my best. I can sure relate to that pesky day job thing... it ruins everything!!
Thanks for the info on ASCAP. I really do know about copyright law. They do not have control over lyrics. They only control the public playing of music, so if I wanted a song to play over a web link they are the ones to take my money as long as it is not down loadable (which is actually were the idea for the story began: incorporating a audio art form to enhance a literary one. You hear what is happening in the story as well as reading about it.)
Example of copyright law: If you are surfing I-tunes and listening to music ASCAP licenses the 30 second sample, but if you purchase said music that goes to the recording label that is usually represented by Harry Fox Agency and RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America). Furthermore, if you want to publish lyrics or sheet music, you have to get permission from the Harry Fox Agency and the label. If you want to record music for anything other then personal consumption it\'s the same hoops. For the most part publishing titles and artist names is fine, but even that can get gray. They usually fall under 'public figure' laws. I think I'm getting dizzy -- for right now only friends and family get to read anything -- the last thing I want to do is get sued.
Good to hear more about copyright. Important stuff to know. There are some fine lines -- you need to be able to quote and give examples to discuss things. And permissions aren\'t always easily come by.
Check your pm\'s.
Just some ideas: sometimes small presses don\'t require agents: here\'s a list, and there\'s others:
http://www.litline.org/links/presses.html. Also try University Presses. Do a search (not that I\'ve published
a book!).
Also, get one of those guides on how to write book proposals, or search around online. You can use those to querry agents. I got an agent interested in my work from an online publication.
Also, start small. Get a copy of Poets and Writers and flip to the back to see whose looking for submissions, then send em. Expect lots and lots of rejections and be willing to revise. Also, check out The Writers Chronicle: www.awpwriter.org out of George Mason U. You might have to be a member to get their pub, but you should be able to find it in libraries I would think. Poets and Writers is as good, I think.
Thanks Sarah, it looks like great information.
I personally am not looking to publish; my ramblings are not even close to worthy. I just wanted to get this freaking story out of my head. And I don't like knocking down doors. That's why I spent ten years paying off a useless MFA in theatre and am now smearing paint on a wall for a living. Note: MFA's are not useless just mine.
However I am interested in reading other's work – HINT! I read your piece on your Dad's sight. I loved it! I also read Hometown. Loved it too!! I can't get to Goddess. Please consider posting more.
I was privileged to read some poetry by Oldfolkie. She's pretty good, in my humble opinion. I'll let her post the link if she is so inclined.
I agree: MFA\'s are useless. Time spent writing was good. The degree\'s not much..
as one without i must say that i envy the time spent reading and studying, and sometimes wish i hadn\'t walked away from it. not to mention that it really helps in the employment arena, regardless of how little it applies to your job function.
No, not all MFA\'s are useless, I suppose. I wouldnt\' be teaching without it, but I have no permanent job yet, and may never get one. Its excruciatingly difficult. I\'ve been told if I want to teach, to get a Ph.d. I\'ve toyed with it, but I\'m not much of an academic. We\'ll see.
depends on what level of teaching you\'re after and where you are - they are starving for good teachers out here and if you can pass the C-Best and have an MFA you are in so far as i know.
i have a friend teaching English/Language Arts at a college out here in SF. if you want i can try to hook you up so you can ask him about it.
i know that a degree is probably the only thing keeping an artist whose work i love from a real teaching position. she asked me what does an artist without a degree do to make a living - i said: "they are stuck doing something else, like most other people without a degree - not doing what they want to do."
Quote she asked me what does an artist without a degree do to make a living - i said: "they are stuck doing something else, like most other people without a degree - not doing what they want to do."
The unfortunate truth! However to put a positive spin on it, the work place would not be the same without us! ;)
Quote...the work place would not be the same without us!
AMEN to that!! :-*
the shame in her case is that she evidently is a good teacher, i know she\'s a great painter, but they wouldn\'t give her more than just a temporary adjunct spot because she couldn\'t get credentialed.
QuoteI agree: MFA\'s are useless. Time spent writing was good. The degree\'s not much..
Unless you want to wax poetics, literally in this case, over an over pricy cup of coffee served by a kid named Skippy in an artsy fartsy coffee house. Thrashing out the significance of an Aristotelian tragic hero as it relates or doesn't relate to modern day theatre (cinema), and how a western audience will not accept the confines of true tragic hero as defined by Aristotle. Opting instead for the reluctant hero, thus nullifying and essentially killing true tragedy in our generation – but it better be a good f*cking cup of coffee...
QuoteI\'ve been told if I want to teach, to get a Ph.d.
Whoever you are talking to is not giving you good information. MFA's are terminal degrees equal to PhD; something I remind my husband on a regular basis, I have the higher degree he never finished his Dissertation. Anyway, it is true in most academia you will find many "Dr." looking down on MFA\'s, but don't let them scare you. Most are self pretentious blowhards.
I'm not sure what you teach; I can only assume it is English or Creative Writing. While English is full of PhD's it can only look good to an Accreditation Committee to have MFA's on staff, demonstrating a well rounded faculty.
If your Department Chair is pushing you to get your Doctorate, you may consider finding a new school! My husband, with his lowly MA and ABD, is Dean of English and Humanities and currently the front runner for Senior Vice President at his college. So don't ever let anyone say a Master's in not good in academia! You're also published, so screw um!
Quote
what does an artist without a degree do to make a living
One more and I promises I'll stop...
It only takes 18 hours of College work above and beyond an Undergraduate degree to actually teach. But, most Colleges and Universities require a higher degree. If you have 18 hours and can prove professional proficiency in your field, many junior colleges will look at you especially if there is a shortage of teachers in a field.
However if none of the above is true, she should consider opening up a studio or finding an existing studio to teach at. With government cuts fine arts are always the first to go. So, there is a huge need for private teachers. I get parents asking all the time where thier kid can take art lessons or theatre classes. My son takes private guitar lessons, because the lack of music in school. He has no talent at it, but we keep shoveling out the cash. My Mother made her living for years teaching women how to Tole paint. Even if you can't do it full time one or two nights a week will sometime satisfy the itch.
One word to the wise, I taught for a year in high school, I now paint... It takes a very special person to be a teacher.
yes, an MFA is a terminal degree and qualifies one to teach at the University. But in creative writing, the competition for good positions is so stiff (literally 100\'s of us going after the same few jobs each year), that its almost impossible. Yes, publications help, but they also say, "No book, don\'t look". That\'s not always true, yes, but its very, very competitive. I\'ve been on the market now for more than four years, and have yet to land a tenure position (though I\'ve yet to really do the community college market, which I am interested in). I\'m at Grand Valley on a 3 year gig as a visiting prof, and lots of colleges are doing this kind of thing to avoid hiring tenure faculty.
A Ph.D in Rhet/Comp might do it (not creative writing). Or, yes, Community College. In Iowa City, there\'s a shitload of some of very best poets and writers you\'d ever want to meet, sitting around drinking coffee or wandering the streets. (that may very well be by choice, I do realize). They say, if you pick up a snowball and throw it, you\'d hit a writer. So few of my colleagues from Iowa have actually managed to get a teaching position, even those of us with books. Universities can get the best of the very best to teach their poetry courses, and the rest of the best struggle.
Whew, you got me going....thanks for reading my essay, by the way!!
Sarah- You are absolutely right in reference to the discussion of degrees., even if I am your father. The topic should really be " tenure track ". At my old stomping grounds, Central Michigan University, in particular, the art department, only adjunct positions are offered... amost never a tenure track. M.F.A. candidates come by the gross, begging. In fact the MFA degree is bing discontinued all over the country. It deserves the same merit as a fishing licence. DOD
All true, except that MFA in creative writing programs: poetry, fiction, and nonfiction, are popping up in departments all over the country. Just exploding. Everybody\'s getting a useless MFA in creative writing now.
Again, I should reiterate that the three years devoted to writing was a really wonderful experience. So I have to say it was worth it for that. And I\'ve accomplished alot since then. But as for using and abusing teachers, it\'s a disgrace. 1500 dollars per course at some schools. 2500 at most. You could make 18,000 or 20,000 a year, no health insurance, teaching 4 writing classes and reading 100\'s of papers a week. Tenure positions (for MFA\'s) are for the elite few.
Okay, I\'ll shut up now.
DOD, I'm a little confused are you suggesting that an MFA is equal to a fishing license? I personally feel that they are worth something in academia, for the simple reason that a true MFA program should concentrate more on the creating art and less on history or theory. Therefore, a faculty that incorporates both perspectives can provide their students a better rounded education. If you have a faculty that is all about the technique and not the end product the art can get lost. That argument also goes the other way, too much art not enough technique. I guess I am lucky, even though I don't teach, Theatre still recognizes MFA's as a desirable degree. I would think Art would be the same, correct me if I am wrong. Creative writing sounds very cut throat even in academia, I feel for you Sarah.
Just out of curiosity DOD, are you pro tenure track? Many Colleges and Universities in Texas are opting for one year contracts. I don't know which is worse getting tenure, sitting on your laurels, and never having to work to improve your teaching again, or fearing for your job year after year because you maybe released without cause.
Sarah, I definitely agree with you working for $1500.00 a class in ridicules! I also think it short changes the students, because an adjunct does not have the same culpability as a full time faculty
Good point. No one should expect anything but time to work on art/writing when going after an MFA, and that\'s all I wanted when I went after it. We shouldnt bitch about the degree being no good, when the idea is to have that time to work. Period. Not use it as a means for finding a job. I think.
Yeah, I like the idea of getting rid of the tenure system and offering renewable contracts. Unfortunately, my three year one\'s not renewable.
I wonder how we got going on this topic. Must have been me.
Buswolley= You hit on all sides of the issue and very well, indeed. How could I be so stupid as to get myself back into this ancient discussion. I spent 20 years looking for answers and was relieved to get out. Pro tenure ? Mostly yes. The alternative is usually ugly... adjunct, temps, etc. The only worthy MFA Grads are me and thee! The MFA programs that I am familiar with are pretty lame, and the Final product ( student) is mediocre . Usually there was seldom enough talent to sustain a program. Fishing lilence? Yes. DOD
With a prestigious MFA, like mine, you can get invited to a lot of good parties too where you can talk for hours about what you\'re not writing. ::)
"you can get invited to a lot of good parties too where you can talk for hours about what you\'re not writing"
LOL sarahd, is that really such an awful fate? As long as the parties are good ones?
Very interesting discussion about art in academe. Almost makes me glad my day job is in science [NOT in academe, thankfully] & I can devote my "real life" to stuff I love like music & writing. Al-most. There are days when I regret not becoming an FM radio DJ or a rambling folk musician. However, I DO like to eat! ::)
buswolley was being kind when she complimented my poems, but, what the hey, here\'s the link:
http://poetsagainstthewar.org/displaypoem.asp?AuthorID=12098
I\'m working on a chapbook -- in the assembling material phase right now. Finally decided that I might as well do something with my overflowing bottom desk drawer. Yet to find a publisher who might be interested (surprise, surprise), but went to a local small press fair last weekend & got some info. Plus there\'s always lulu.com
I\'ll let you guys know how it comes along.
QuoteI\'m working on a chapbook
:D hey, cool oldfolkie! i hope that comes to pass and that you give us all a heads up when it comes out.
not familiary with "lulu.com"... guess i\'ll have to wander over there and check what that\'s about. i have mild regrets about what i didn\'t do in my youth, but that\'s far outweighed by the joys resulting from what i DID do and i try hard to keep that in mind... sometimes i forget.
sarahd - those parties are probably good fodder for an interesting thematic book - of course they might not like someone holding a mirror that close. ones warts can be painful to acknowledge; much easier to point and laugh at someone else\'s. ;)
gkg, any regrets I have are very mild indeed. I\'m certainly not in the first flush of youth, being the "wrong" side of 50, but life has been great so far & I\'m looking forward to more!
lulu.com is a self-e-publishing site that gives the option of hardcopy or CD-ROM, either or both, on demand. A step or 2 up from laser printer & stapler?
ah - i have laser printer and comb binder - surely that falls between the two? ;)
by the way, the only way to be the wrong side of 50 is to never make it that far. :-*