All the hard work you have been putting in here at TDRS is awesome Travis. I really appreciate it, and think the fact that someone at your level hasn\'t "sold out", at least in the sense of just focusing on appeasing the beast, is freeking awesome. The truth is though, I really think most artists these days, and I am refering to new artists, aspiring ect., still don\'t have a very realistic view of what it\'s "all about"; the definition of royalties, a full comprehension of rights, understanding things like advances, contracts, distribution, ect, ect. Obviously, this is a vast field, that no one knows everything about everything, but the thing is, it really occurs to me that a lot of the artists still don\'t know what\'s really going on.
For the last two years I have tried to find some people to record with. It has been more than hard, try impossible. The biggest problem I ran into, was that most of the cats I met, all thought they were gonna rock out thier local dive, and some fat cat with a cigar was gonna roll in, pull a magical contract out of his pocket, a fat pen, hand them a cigar, and lead them off to a limo. Not one "band" I checked out had a website, or a demo, but they all had issues. As soon as I mentioned the theme of creating a recording and playing behind that, marketing it, instead of just playing, hoping for some miracle, I was poopoo\'d.
Have you ever had a conversation with someone about a topic, and everything either of you said, the other was just about to say, or completely agreed with? Conversations like that in the field of music, for me, are few and far between. People in this day and age want someone else to do the work. They are waiting for the "big deal". LOL. Even if you get it, do you know what that really means?
Basically, I want to help. I will start with a few of what I consider fundamental concepts. Please, by all means Travis, if you feel I am incorrect say so. I am hoping to get yours and any other posters with experience\'s input.
1)If you do what you love, you will never work a day in your life
2)Who are you?
3)Why do I care?
4)Product - in order to sell something, you must have something to sell. Very few people get far selling concepts. In most cases, those who produce the best output, attract the biggest market.
5)You are responcible for you. Even if you have people on the case, how do you know they are straight? Learn as much as you can about your buisness, that will leave less gaps for you to get gaffled.
6)website/webpage(even) - do something man, in this day and age, you just don\'t exist if you don\'t have at least a small presence in cyber space. Not to mention there is no better way to achieve worldwide advertisement. If you do plan to market yourself to a label, they will want to know your stats, like hits on your site, and number of members of your forum for example.
Here\'s an analogy;
Microsoft absorbs companies everyday, left and right. What you don\'t see them do, is go to some kids house, and pull him out of his mom\'s basement, because he could make some great software. No. They go for the small guys who are breathing down their neck, or at least giving it enough hell to get noticed.
Now, if you are humble enough to not seek out that holiest of grails, then there is hope. Serve yourself, your art, and any fans you may accumulate along your journey, and all together we can cahnge things like heavy rotation, and the general degredation of music and music appreciation in general. OK. I\'m tired, that was alot of ranting. ::)
Hey can I jump in on this, Ok being an artist can be a blessing or hardship, I know this was posted for Travis and Other Posters, I have been makeing scratch riff recordings for the past five years and I know about a Pinky toes worth of the Music Biz, before I was an advid recorder I was real heavy in the Art world had and Host a few shows in an under valued No Pay Art Gallery job, the owner is now in france and I wish him all the best, but he ground the Gallery into the dirt before consulting me he was folding up, I was out of the art loop, thinking what the hek will I do now, I tried to get another job in another form of artwork world but to no avail, Jobs filled, no experience, I was desperate I almost got some thing washing silkscreens, but no.
Now I am Employed as a Janitor makeing it with a passion to get by, Makeing music but not really knowing how to play the A G D E D E cords in a Lydoian style of Appergio\'s, hek probably spelt that wrong , but I can Improve slow it down and write it down and thats what I \'ve been doing, only now have I tackled the Music Biz by yes giving some (Free) Music out to the masses to test the waters of Music Biz and the likes that someone somewhere will hear it and say " whats that, how does he do it" not really caring if they like it or not( is that wrong), I just want to be herd, I got Two done How to Make Soup almost Out of Print and the Other one is yet to be released, then I have three on the shelves. I have no real clue on the order of a production, release, profit and sell ablity of my Music, I\'m most looked at as an Art following my own Leader, but I go into Kinko\'s and reproduce, my own drawn up Album Covers is in My tastes sort of a Independent type thing, that says hey I wanna make something visual but not to visual cause it\'ll take away from the Music, also with my Album is sort of a Meshy made compilation of Chic Disc Rico and my older Band Secret Society.
In Closing I would have like to run into some other Musicians, I am aware I can not play everything but I \'d like to think that I can, maybe I should Orcastrate something outlandish sounding or go Natural but that is yet to be. Not to give it thought but to put feeling into it and call it Baby, give it wings, watch it fly.
End
Chris
My friend, all comments are welcome. We all start somewhere. My purpose for starting this thread is to try to help you(anyone) close the gap, to provide a little information to help you learn what has taken years to figure out the hard way. I am still a noob, this is why I asked for any input that Travis may like to give specifically. Travis is doing a lot of work here to promote art, his, his client\'s, and even yours. I just want to help people understand, that may need help. I suppose if you read anything here, and think, tell me something I don\'t know, move on. Hopefully this will help someone though. Maybe it\'s a bad idea, if so, Travis can delete the thread, with my humble appypollylogies. ;)
I think one of the difficulties of talking about music and business is because what we really are talking about more often than not are dreams.
Dreams are what inspire us and what motivate young musicians and older ones too (everyone really). At a certain age reality is a hindrance, if you had a good dose of reality you would never get out of the gate. Everyone dreams about what could be. Dreaming, wishing and longing for something is what sets us apart from the other beings in this world. The fact is there are all kinds of people with very different talent and perceptions about their talent and approaches to art and how you produce your art, as a most divine inspired reason to be or a calculated means to and end, we all have the same thing in common, dreams. So succeeding in a chosen vocation is a very personal threshold. Perhaps you won\'t be satisfied till your famous and filthy rich, or maybe you will realize your dream when you realize you are happy doing what your doing at any given moment. There is a good reason John Lennon\'s Aunt Mimi told him " young man, playing the guitar is alright but you will never make a living at it". Something that is said to young artist everyday. She knew from sage wisdom, that what the young man was going to try to do was a hard, hard road. The fact is if you choose art, music, acting or anything that is about self expression, you should choose to do it because you love it and you need to. The hard work that comes with learning a craft to express your art is made easy. In fact the dream that falls away with time is replaced by the satisfaction of your expression. Any reward is the result of that expression. If you look around at the people who have succeeded, you will see incredibly talented people and people who\'s art was the ability to get themselves there without incredible talent. Talent, persistence and hard work and luck, some have more of one than the other. I know many artists who you have never heard of that would just blow you away. Time has mellowed their dream but it has been replaced by a journeyman\'s maturity and a self realization of their goals. I guess when you ask me these questions I hear your dreams in your questions. I am where I am now because at some point my dreams didn\'t jive with "the music business". And so a mutual pact was formed. I\'m still a musician and I always will be one. They don\'t call it independent for nothing, independent is a euphemism for "hard to sell". "Independent music business" is an oxymoron. I don\'t mean this to be an essay but I think it\'s not so important if you get to know the ins and out of the music business to succeed unless thats what gives you your edge. Someone else\'s edge might be to learn how to play the guitar so well it hurts or learn everything they can about recording. Your edge is what give you the confidence to weather your disappointments that will surly come, even if you succeed beyond you wildest dreams.
Sorry if I totally didn\'t answer your question.
:)Thanks for your reply. I agree totally with everything you have said, to the threshold of my experience/comprehension. Perhaps I came across wrong, I often do, I sincerely didn\'t mean to imply that there was some "right way" or anything(and certinaly not that I know what it is). Of course, one\'s own expectations of their art being expressed, and as you said, dreams being fullfilled, is thier own definition of success. If it\'s being stinking rich, or just being humbly satisfied with doing what they love. My reasoning for starting this thread was to try to help anyone who may be under the grand delusion to see a little more clearly, before their lifetime passes away as they learn the hard way. But then, maybe the hard way is the only way. For myself, I am satisfied to be able to play my music, to have the skill and talent to just play. It\'s like this, if I were stuck on an island, I would play, because I love it. I\'d make me a fiddle out of a turtle shell and a stick like Kirk Douglas in 20K leagues. Anyway, I suppose you may want to delete this thread if it is hereby deemed pointless. :-/ :-[
"I suppose you may want to delete this thread if it is hereby deemed pointless. "
No No No, this is the crux of the whole matter really. All I was saying is do what you feel, your approach is totally valid and I think we see eye to eye perfectly. Thanks for adding superbly to the quality of the discourse around here.
Yes, Art, Yes Music, Yes Write(ing), Yes Acting, In Dreams Yes you are the master of a Path, hard roads and soft roads, but I don\'t plan to be a Janitor all my life I would like to have a freedom to record at any given hour of any given day, alot of the people I admire are Dead, that tells alot and covers half the Musical, written and yes acting sepctrum, to many to name... But I feel I can let people hear this and that, I am currently teaching my self Bass so that I can jam with a Buddy of mine. I\'ve had fun telling the posters of my early exploits before I got into music or TDRS for that matter.
This is good to know , Thanks
Chris
Some handy links, and good reading.
Music Business Handbook and Career Guide - David Baskerville
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761916679/103-8242570-1347823
J.C. Levinson Guerilla Marketing
http://www.gmarketing.com/
(if you are interested in recording)
Modern Recording Techniques - D.M.Huber & R.E.Runstein
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0240804562/103-8242570-1347823
http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/
http://www.harmony-central.com
The music business handbook is great. It is the book that took me from delusion, to reality, and I highly recommend it. It covers a great deal of info including rights, labels, distribution, ect. As I think of more links, or more info, I will post it.
Cheers... I was looking at a Book on the UCD Campus Bookstore about recording with even the Cheapest of things, I couldn\'t open it though it was wrapped in a sealer, but what I use is a minute recorder which hooks up to the Hard drive in the Computer Tower, this thing is perfect for loops, but in the early days I had a Mini Magno Vox? tape Recorder, its dead now, but I would get the last desired effect from it, by sampling a tape on how to speak Mandarin Chineses, loop that over and Over with tape hiss, sorta like CS2 the first Master, Do You still Wish to Fight, ...Yes, I am Not Affraid to Kill you becuase there is no Death.
Chris
didn\'t get book from last post, got something better its the second Edition, Making and Marketing Music, the musician\'s guide to financing, distributing, and promoting Aalbums by Jodi Summers... should be a good read, lots of stuff is from everyone from Jeff Abercrombie to Rob Zombie... good stuff publishers house Allworth Press, found it at UCD book store.
Chris :D