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Political and Social Discussions => Political and Social Discussions (read only) => Topic started by: oldfolkie on September 02, 2005, 11:11:47 AM

Title: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: oldfolkie on September 02, 2005, 11:11:47 AM
As the week has gone by and I\'ve watched the horror increase in a place I love, I have scanned the news from all the sources I could think of to learn of what was being done to help. I even did my tiny bit by making a donation to the Red Cross, since I can\'t be on the spot to lend a hand.

One of the most moving pleas I have seen both specifically addresses NOLA/Katrina and more generally addresses the current political regime in the USA.

The good folks over at Perceval Press say in their contact instructions that they don\'t want to be contacted over anything but publishing matters. However, I think their efforts deserve a wider circulation, and today\'s message posted by Viggo Mortensen really struck to my heart.

http://www.percevalpress.com/home.html

Travis, you know Viggo. The next time you see him, please say "Thank you".
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 02, 2005, 11:26:47 PM
And I thank you for drawing this to my attention. I have to admit that I echo Viggo\'s sentiments. What has been allowed to transpire goes beyond the pale.  :\'(
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 03, 2005, 04:54:22 AM
what a glistening jewel of mass ignorance, you people dont give 2 shits about those hurricane victims all you care about is how you can use this to bash bush. read this dummies......

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

you lefties are just plain sick and the whole country knows it, dont plan on winning many elections anytime soon
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 03, 2005, 06:34:22 AM
oh yea and dont let this little nugget of truth get in the way of your pass the buck bash bush mentality either

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/bush_katrina_2


look real closely at the DATE....i especially like this....

The president\'s emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.


im assuming since the mayor of NO and the governor of LA are libtards they are immune from ANY criticism on this matter?
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 03, 2005, 03:13:53 PM
Your comments really don\'t deserve response but I will waste a few keystrokes anyways. What is at issue is the extreme delay and huge lack of coordination of the relief effort. People are dying because of mismanagement. The real question at hand is "where is the leadership in FEMA". I guess your link sums it up pretty good in the statement

"The president\'s emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties."

Being as you like sharing links and obviously like to read you may wish to read this tidbit on how priorities have been handled recently. (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)

or this  story regarding where the delays occurred (http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/katrina/stories/090405ccKatrinawccongressguard.1f974ad6.html) and again, as you said, make sure to take note of the dates mentioned. You may also notice the fact the questions being raised cut across political spectrums.

Then again, you likely will not enjoy it much.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 05, 2005, 11:28:55 AM
Three days into the aftermath and FEMA still did not have a command and control center - that\'s just insane - i don\'t normally have many issues with FEMA, they usually do reasonably good work - but that was just insane.

They have known this problem was coming for years - and yet they syphoned off funds that were supposed to go toward securing and working on the levees.  Instead they spent it on the "war on terror" - but Al Qaida could easily have breached a levee using a bomb like the one that breached the Cole in Yemen, or using depth-bombs like the British used to break a German hydroelectric dam in WWII.

This is a Homeland Security Department planning issue, not just FEMA.  Bush is all hat and no cattle, all mouth and no trouser - all show and no substance - you kid yourself all you like, phartacus, but the truth is showing the world what an ass your heroic president really is, and just how clueless his administration is.  We (the world, not just the US) will be decades, a quarter or even a half century cleaning up the mess he\'s created and continues to heap upon this nation.

This might interest you...
The following completely staged Bush-comforts-two-young-black-women transcript comes about 1 minute 40 seconds into this CNN video. It\'s unbelievable.
 
Warning: I had to sit through a US Army recuiting commercial before the CNN news video started.

CNN video transcript

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2005/09/02/vo.bush.biloxi.families.cnn:

Bush to women: "There\'s a Salvation Army center that I want to, that I\'ll tell you where it is, and they\'ll get you some help. I\'m sorry... They\'ll help you...
Woman 1: "I came here looking for clothes..."
Bush: "They\'ll get you some clothes, at the Salvation Army center..."
Woman 1: "We don\'t have anything..."
Bush: "I understand... Do you know where the center is, that I\'m talking to you about?"
Guy with shades: "There\'s no center there, sir, it\'s a truck." ...
Bush: "There\'s trucks?"
Guy: "There\'s a school, a school about two miles away..."
Bush: "But isn\'t there a Salvation center down there?"
Guy: "No that\'s wiped out..."
Bush: "A temporary center? "
Guy: "No sir they\'ve got a truck there, for food."
Bush: "That\'s what I\'m saying, for food and water."
Bush turns to the sister who\'s been saying how she needs clothes.
Bush to sister: "You need food and water."
Bush plays completely to the cameras.
 
More detail and links here...
 
http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=20050903214041794
 
German TV apparently is reporting that the "Salvation Centers" are opening just before Bush\'s press convoy arrives and then these "resources" are folded up after the press convoy leaves.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 05, 2005, 10:41:47 PM
Is it not factual that FEMA has been disassembled and absorbed into the Homeland Security department? The previous mechanisms first put in place by President Carter and strengthened to start to act instead of react by President Clinton have been broken and a dysfunctional bureaucracy has been installed under the premise that the only clear and present danger to our well being currently lies on Arabian soil. FEMA was a target for destruction from the start of the current administrations reign. Bush\'s first appointment to head FEMA, Allbaugh, testifying before Congress in 2001, that \'he was concerned that federal disaster assistance had become "an oversized entitlement program"\'. There you have it. Some people should simply not be entitled to live per this statement. The current director is just another figure head. Look up his credentials if you are curious. The ultimate blame should rest with the person who is holding the top position but I suspect this will not happen. I suppose a hurricane isn't really a valid reason to stop vacationing and beside it appears that the administration is planning to cover itself by faulting Governor Blanco. The Federal government has the authority to commandeer vehicles in a time of crisis. This happened for both the wars in Iraq with aircraft. It should have happened instantly with every available bus and helicopter within a reasonable radius as soon as it became known the levies were in trouble. I realize we live in a Republic but I believe I am correct in saying that in this situation no legal barrier was there to stop vehicles from being brought into the area. If WalMart could get tractor trailers into the city (as they were spotted doing so no latter than Thursday morning) why couldn't our federal government.

I suppose you have all heard this already but in case someone hasn\'t you may be interested in the comments of the Mayor of NOLA (http://www.zen41771.zen.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/WWL-AM%20Interview%20Nagin.mp3) on this.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 06, 2005, 10:12:43 AM
QuoteThe previous mechanisms first put in place by President Carter and strengthened to start to act instead of react by President Clinton have been broken and a dysfunctional bureaucracy has been installed under the premise that the only clear and present danger to our well being currently lies on Arabian soil.
I believe you to be correct but unfortunately hadn\'t had the chance to do enough research to state such a thing myself.  In those cases I prefer to stay away from saying something from the gut that could be wrong.  Thank you for setting me straight - I appreciate that!  Now I have yet another item to research and expand my brain on.  :D

Here\'s a start on my research - and I\'m sadly not surprised to hear it...

http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857

Yikes!  I hadn\'t realized they\'d lost SO much control and had so LITTLE a voice in their own training and use!  Yet again, the geniuses who brought us meaningless "Homeland Security" fucks up.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050906/ap_on_go_pr_wh/katrina_warnings_3
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 07, 2005, 06:29:26 AM
you missed the point entirely, i dont disagree that there were fumblings from the local level to the top. the point im trying to make is that the blame game helps nobody and that idiots like viggo just need to shit the fuck up, stick to making art, and let grown folks do grown folks work. i see corruption, scandals, and ineptitude in all flavors of the political spectrum but not once have any of you wacked out, hate filled lefties criticized anything to do with UN oil for food, clintons numerous scandals etc etc. get over it YOU LOST bush is not running for another term. meanwhile i\'ll be enjoying my tax cut that allowed me to donate a pretty sizable amount of cash to hurricane relief rather than having it taken from me by the gubmint and used for some pork barrel bullshit. GKG and dirtface how much have you 2 donated?  
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 07, 2005, 09:25:07 AM
first of all - the blame game, as you put it, is quite the point.  FEMA was torn to shreds and allowed to be headed by a horse show director by whom?  your hero.

Viggo actually has a great deal more right than many to say what he likes - the man has a degree in government - do you?

how much have i given?  i have given 1/3 of what was in my closet & dresser, 1/2 of what was in my partner\'s closet & dresser - as well as cash and blood (i\'m 0+ - do you give blood?  they need that too).  i have also collected clothes and money from neighbors and friends. all of this is being shipped to people we know who lost everything and yet are volunteering their time at distribution centers, day cares and hospitals in Baton Rouge where they wound up.

what have you given, smart ass?
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 07, 2005, 01:58:57 PM
Quoteyou missed the point entirely, i dont disagree that there were fumblings from the local level to the top. the point im trying to make is that the blame game helps nobody and that idiots like viggo just need to shit the fuck up, stick to making art, and let grown folks do grown folks work. i see corruption, scandals, and ineptitude in all flavors of the political spectrum but not once have any of you wacked out, hate filled lefties criticized anything to do with UN oil for food, clintons numerous scandals etc etc. get over it YOU LOST bush is not running for another term. meanwhile i\'ll be enjoying my tax cut that allowed me to donate a pretty sizable amount of cash to hurricane relief rather than having it taken from me by the gubmint and used for some pork barrel bullshit. GKG and dirtface how much have you 2 donated?  

Let me guess. You consider yourself the voice of reason right? Before you submit that answer maybe you should perform a spell check at the very least (a head check might be in order too as it sounds like you have blown a gasket or two). While you enjoying that "tax cut" just be sure and remember where that money came from and what it could have been used for if it had been spent wisely.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 07, 2005, 03:59:45 PM
Quotefirst of all - the blame game, as you put it, is quite the point.  FEMA was torn to shreds and allowed to be headed by a horse show director by whom?  your hero.

bush is not my hero

Viggo actually has a great deal more right than many to say what he likes - the man has a degree in government - do you?

no i have the first amendment, and regardless of his degree he has no more or less right than anyone and i didnt say he HAD to shutup i said he SHOULD shutup

how much have i given?  i have given 1/3 of what was in my closet & dresser, 1/2 of what was in my partner\'s closet & dresser - as well as cash and blood (i\'m 0+ - do you give blood?  they need that too).  i have also collected clothes and money from neighbors and friends. all of this is being shipped to people we know who lost everything and yet are volunteering their time at distribution centers, day cares and hospitals in Baton Rouge where they wound up.

i think you are lying, but if im wrong then i commend you on your effort

what have you given, smart ass?

several hundred dollars of US currency via the US red cross, which is what they stated they needed most



Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 07, 2005, 04:13:44 PM
Quotebush is not my hero
glad to hear it although i\'m surprised after your various statements.
 
Quoteno i have the first amendment, and regardless of his degree he has no more or less right than anyone and i didnt say he HAD to shutup i said he SHOULD shutup
who the hell are you to say someone should shut up when they choose to exercise their rights?
 
Quotei think you are lying, but if im wrong then i commend you on your effort
f\'ck you, i don\'t need your condescending commendation, most certainly not after that accusation!  i am not lying.  what an assumption to make - really shows who you are.
 
Quoteseveral hundred dollars of US currency via the US red cross, which is what they stated they needed most.
good for you - we all do what we can.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 07, 2005, 04:27:38 PM
Quote

Let me guess. You consider yourself the voice of reason right? Before you submit that answer maybe you should perform a spell check at the very least (a head check might be in order too as it sounds like you have blown a gasket or two). While you enjoying that "tax cut" just be sure and remember where that money came from and what it could have been used for if it had been spent wisely.

wow attack my spelling at half past 7 AM before the first cup of coffee is consumed...thanks professor

first of all no i dont consider myself "the voice of reason" it just pisses me off that people turn a natural DISASTER into a flippin politicaL event. i stated in my post that i saw a poo poo response from the bottom up (meaning LOCAL, STATE, and FEDERAL) but i see from you people is bush this, bush that, bush is hitler, bush is killing black people and on and on and on.

but the thing that pisses me off more than anything dirtface is your question about "tax cuts"...  "While you enjoying that "tax cut" just be sure and remember where that money came from and what it could have been used for if it had been spent wisely." seriously dude are you insane? remember where the money came from? i am reminded 8 hours a day 5 days a week where that money came from when i am at work bleeding, sweating, and just good old fashioned busting my ass for it!!!!! but if it were up to you im sure half MY money that i EARNED would better spent to keep some methadone clinic in seattle operational. man you got some iron testicles making comments like that. as for me i know how socialists operate, but go tell joe six pack who puts in a solid 40 hrs a week building houses he could never hope to afford that drivel and see what happens.    
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 07, 2005, 05:19:16 PM
Quote
f\'ck you,

now now now, this isnt the compassionate, understanding liberalism i was brought up to believe existed

all jokes aside i by nature am skeptical of any claims made by anyone on internet bulletin boards. rather than saying i was skeptical i "knee-jerked" and called you a liar which was a lack of judgement on my part and for that i apologize. now if you wanna debate like adults im all for that but please dont use profane language toward me.  
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: caper on September 07, 2005, 05:49:18 PM
that is very adult to apologize and i respect you for it but come on phartucus  (LOL @ the classical gas) get real i see you incite and go all ad hominum on the peeps and then cry foul when they bite back?

about katrina this is all i have to say :\'(
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 07, 2005, 05:57:41 PM
thank you for the apology.

however, that was not a debate, it was an attack and hence i don\'t feel compelled to reciprocate with an apology of my own.

i hear ya, Caper, sad indeed.   :\'(
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 07, 2005, 08:34:35 PM
Quote

first of all no i dont consider myself "the voice of reason"
Good. Your not.

Quote
i stated in my post that i saw a poo poo response from the bottom up (meaning LOCAL, STATE, and FEDERAL) but i see from you people is bush this, bush that, bush is hitler, bush is killing black people and on and on and on.

Just a reminder, your earlier post stated

"The president\'s emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties."

Maybe you need to reread this carefully as it sure seems you didn\'t understand just what it said when you posted it. I suggest you pay special attention to the phrase

"authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts ".

See, this is not how a bottom up approach works but it certainly was how a top down approach failed. Do you understand what I mean?

As for money, it comes from the Federal Reserve; which you see is part of the Government though it acts with great autonomy.....

And as for helping addicts do you think it is reasonable to say that it is a wise investment in people to imprison them? Think your response through a bit before you go off.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 08, 2005, 09:26:10 AM
Phartacus, you take issue with the idea that this is at all political - so I would like to remind you, Bush\'s administration has steadfastly replaced the trained professionals heading FEMA with political paybacks who have NO experience or knowledge in this extremely important and complex field.  You can\'t GET more policital than that and this is a branch of the government that should NOT be politicized at all.

I believe that was Mr. Mortensen\'s point, and I agree with him completely.  It is that sort of ill conceived decision making that has marked this administration from the onset and demonstrates that Bush does not deserve to be in power, regardless of whether one thinks he was legitimately elected or not.

Mr. Bush deserves Impeachment more than any president before him and the evidence of same is mounting daily.  Why people choose not to see it is beyond me but in this particular instance I\'m not going to address the matter further.  You claim to know already what we "liberals" have to say and be closed against it - that is your loss, as you might learn something if you didn\'t label and ignore once labeled.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: lae on September 08, 2005, 12:18:26 PM
Too many things went wrong with the handling of this disaster.  It should never have happened.  I\'m not into bashing anyone, but I do think the buck stops at the top and that is with the President.  This was a federal problem, there was no way local agencies could handle the devastation brought on by Katrina.  
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 08, 2005, 01:57:37 PM
Quote

Mr. Bush deserves Impeachment more than any president before him and the evidence of same is mounting daily.

please point to one impeachable offense...just one

seriously why is government the sacred cow to you people? if you paid attention to whats going on you will see that big bulky governments are just incapable of doing anything and all you want is more government, more red tape, and more bureaucratic BS. and just so you all know congress writes laws, sets budgets and so on and so forth, the president doesnt. i dont hear anyone bitching about hillary clintoon or any other congress person voting to add FEMA to Dept. of homeland security....hello? hello? hello?

Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 08, 2005, 02:11:10 PM
Quotebut I do think the buck stops at the top and that is with the President.

of course you think that, there is an evil republican currently in office but.......

in this instance im afraid what you, I, or anyone else "thinks" is irrelevant. bills are written by members of congress then voted on by said congress then if passed they are signed into law by the president. its been this way for 200 some odd years. its called a representative republic (the layfolkcall it democracy)  and each individual state has certain rights and the FEDS cannot come in unless they are asked to by the state. cmon guys this is 12th grade stuff here. thats the law if ya dont like it vote for people who will change it.    
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: lae on September 08, 2005, 02:14:46 PM
Quoteof course you think that, there is an evil republican currently in office but.......

I would think that if there was a Democrat in office too.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 08, 2005, 02:50:27 PM
Quoteplease point to one impeachable offense...just one

Lying, at best, and quite probably fabricating, to take this nation into war.

I do not want more government.  Why does the government want more of my rights?  I do wonder why you cling to the skirts of the administration and demand that Bush not be deemed responsible for the errors he\'s made in shredding FEMA.

You suggest that Viggo and presumably those of us who agree with him, "let grown folks do grown folks work" - what condescending crap.  My guess?  Both he and I are older than you are.  Not that it matters.  I suspect that we have each seen more in the varied cities and countries we\'ve lived in, than you\'ve had a chance to...  A broader base of knowledge and experience could be informing our statements.

As I said, Phartacus, you\'ve labeled democrats as "libtards" and don\'t really want a discussion - so this is the end of my replies to you on this thread.  I do thank you for the points you\'ve raised though, because of your perspective I was interested in looking more deeply into FEMA and I have to say, it only solidified my position.

PEACE.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 08, 2005, 08:08:47 PM
OMG! I just read the state has ordered 25,000 body bags.  :\'(
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 09, 2005, 06:28:00 AM
Quote

- what condescending crap.  

I suspect that we have each seen more in the varied cities and countries we\'ve lived in, than you\'ve had a chance to...  A broader base of knowledge and experience could be informing our statements.


wow i wonder whats worse my condescention, or your ARROGANT condescention? i like how you throw a little hypocricy into the mix as well. but hey if ya really wanna get down to brass tax a recent poll showed 13% of the population blames the prez......welcome to kookville gkg    


Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 09, 2005, 09:51:38 AM
Not arrogance at all - I\'m over 40 and lived in 2 countries; I\'ve lived in 2 states in Brasil and 9 states within the US.  I\'ve see a lot and come to certain conclusions based on that and if you\'ll read it I said I suspected that it "could" be so - no statement or condescension.

As for polls - what sources?  I\'m hearing a very different scenario, but ultimately it doesn\'t matter - you\'re looking for a mud slinging contest and I\'m not interested.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: Durga on September 09, 2005, 10:43:06 AM
Phartacus wrote:

"idiots like viggo just need to shit the f**k up"

OK, the gloves are off.  

Do not disrespect Viggo Mortensen ever.  He is one of my greatest artistic inspirations, and he is a good man.  Something, I highly doubt a guy with the screen name "Phartacus" can claim.

Listen, Phartacus, you are clearly an angry little man who takes perverse pleasure in spewing your sad, small-minded venom wherever you can.  Your lack of compassion is beyond my ability to fathom.  

Gratefully, you are not the majority.  Gratefully, the majority of Americans (and humanity, for that matter) are committed to helping one another with hearts full of love and service.  Case in point, we didn\'t elect Bush the first time and we didn\'t elect him the second time.  Check the facts on voting fraud in Ohio and elsewhere and you\'ll see that Bush stole the election twice.

The fact that our current \'president\' is a completely inept moron will not stop us.  Love will prevail.  It always does.  No amount of hateful words on your part can stop that...

Don\'t bother responding with ugly banter...unless you enjoy amassing bad karma.

PEACE
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 09, 2005, 12:41:29 PM
Quote

I do not want more government.

PEACE.

I am guessing this is just one more reason for you NOT to vote for something like our current administration. It is puzzling how people buy into the double speak; tax cuts for some and increased government spending somehow equal a reduction in government.  Even a blind person likely \'sees\' where this road leads and anyone over 35 should be able to remember where it landed us 20 something years ago. The only difference this time around is the industry that power is build on had already been gutted 20 something years ago.

Remember gkg, the creation of Homeland Security was a reduction in government accomplished by spending more money and adding more layers.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 09, 2005, 12:57:58 PM
you\'ve got my number, dirtface; i read double-speak loud and clear.  knew the tax break was a farce; knew the HLS was going to stand for Hell Lets Stick\'em - with more layers, more red tape, more bullshit titles for worthless friends... the only reduction we got was fewer places to turn when the shit hit the fan, fewers avenues for true checks and balances.

sigh... it\'s the only good thing about my dad being dead - he\'d be heart broken.  he\'d be stirring up a damn good stink, but he\'d be heart broken nonetheless.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 09, 2005, 03:58:09 PM
Quote

I am guessing this is just one more reason for you NOT to vote for something like our current administration. It is puzzling how people buy into the double speak; tax cuts for some and increased government spending somehow equal a reduction in government.  Even a blind person likely \'sees\' where this road leads and anyone over 35 should be able to remember where it landed us 20 something years ago. The only difference this time around is the industry that power is build on had already been gutted 20 something years ago.

Remember gkg, the creation of Homeland Security was a reduction in government accomplished by spending more money and adding more layers.

you think i like all the big government crap congress is passing and the prez is signing into law? man gimme a break you people act as though im some shill for bush just cause i said that pointing fingers at the president is a bunch of BS.  
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: phartacus on September 09, 2005, 04:06:09 PM
QuotePhartacus wrote:

"idiots like viggo just need to shit the f**k up"

OK, the gloves are off.  

Do not disrespect Viggo Mortensen ever.  He is one of my greatest artistic inspirations, and he is a good man.  Something, I highly doubt a guy with the screen name "Phartacus" can claim.

Listen, Phartacus, you are clearly an angry little man who takes perverse pleasure in spewing your sad, small-minded venom wherever you can.  Your lack of compassion is beyond my ability to fathom.  

Gratefully, you are not the majority.  Gratefully, the majority of Americans (and humanity, for that matter) are committed to helping one another with hearts full of love and service.  Case in point, we didn\'t elect Bush the first time and we didn\'t elect him the second time.  Check the facts on voting fraud in Ohio and elsewhere and you\'ll see that Bush stole the election twice.

The fact that our current \'president\' is a completely inept moron will not stop us.  Love will prevail.  It always does.  No amount of hateful words on your part can stop that...

Don\'t bother responding with ugly banter...unless you enjoy amassing bad karma.

PEACE

the only thing i can get from this post is that you pretty much say

free speech for me
but not for thee

i really am sorry i have disrupted the hive mentality of your little liberal oasis here, i mean after all what was i thinking when i came into a an internet forum that clearly states its a political DISCUSSION board? as far as me "disrespecting" viggo i will go on record saying i think he is a fine actor, a marginally talented musician, and a very handsome man but as far as his ideological views are concerned he is as kooky and wacked out as they come.    
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 09, 2005, 06:20:28 PM
Quote

you think i like all the big government crap congress is passing and the prez is signing into law? man gimme a break you people act as though im some shill for bush just cause i said that pointing fingers at the president is a bunch of BS.  

WOW! Now that phrase is an oxymoron if I ever saw one!

Seeing as you insist on having the last word I will invite it. Tell me, did you take your uhhh, tax rebate check and rush out and buy a DVD player to bolster our economy as Mr. Bush suggested we all do in one of his more memorably idiotic speeches? Now again, before you spout out some more silly bunk just stop and ask yourself, "where are DVD players made?". Yes, that is right. These were the instructions given to the voting public by the man who claims to have the answers to the ailments that beset us. Fiscal responsibility is what we saw in the mid-late 1990\'s. What do you propose as a reasonable tag line for the current monetary policies? You know, the ones that piss away levee money to bolster a war complex (read this one as you will) and leaves us in a position where a virtual levy on fuel provides record profits to oil companies. I have a name for it but I would like to hear yours.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 09, 2005, 06:30:01 PM
Quote
idiots like viggo just need to shit the fuck up,
Quote
the only thing i can get from this post is that you pretty much say

free speech for me
but not for thee

Yep, your right. That is exactly what you are saying.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 23, 2005, 07:53:29 PM
FEMA was in control of the situation right? (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4859329)
And there you have it.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 29, 2005, 09:55:03 PM
What did I say earlier about where the groundwork for blame was being set? I find it simply despicable the way this whole situation is playing out. As you can clearly see here (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976) FEMA aid was requested accordingly yet our impartial inquiry into the occurrences belches out this noise (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/27/national/nationalspecial/27text-brown.html?pagewanted=all). If you have the time and patience to read through it all make sure you pay special attention to the conversations between Shays, Buyer and Brown. Though these seem to be very biting it is also some very twisted stuff with huge ramifications. Most worriesome is the fact the Whitehouse simply left New Orleans out of the declared plan (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)!? This is incomprehensible. Any; any explaination for this please.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 30, 2005, 09:58:24 AM
it\'s amazing how far they will go to go nowhere
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on September 30, 2005, 12:30:48 PM
Are you sure this is inteded to be a dead end?
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on September 30, 2005, 01:04:39 PM
oh goodness no - but they act like if they keep their feet moving we won\'t notice that they\'ve gotten no where.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: oldfolkie on October 01, 2005, 09:36:54 AM
Very interesting to see what comes out of the mouths of jetisonned cronies when they no longer have access to their speech-writers, isn\'t it? *whistles*
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on October 01, 2005, 09:07:07 PM
Quoteoh goodness no - but they act like if they keep their feet moving we won\'t notice that they\'ve gotten no where.

Don\'t forget the stated remedy put forward by the administration is to have the Active Federal Military take charge of the situation (as opposed to having the Reserve available). I don\'t know about you but when I hear something like this coming from someone like them I start to feel more than a bit nervous. Maybe my math is terrible but when I start adding all this stuff up it really makes me start to figure. See here; we have PAM in which the people who are suppose to respond to a serious hurricane play out pretty much the exact situation that unfolds a few months later (ever read Tom Clancy?). We have a President who is oddly enough vacant from office when the real problem crops up and basically unavailable as the situation unfolds (seem vaguely similar to a different situation that occurred about 4 years and 19 days ago?). We have an easy to drop crony who opens up the doors to a whole new game for the administration (think back to who took the blame before and what the outcomes were because of it; does the hint unfettered surveillance ring any bells?). What I see is maybe not a very original group of people but some of the most damn opportunistic mongers ever to hit Capitol Hill. Personally I find this very disturbing. I don't think it is wise to sit one minute under the guise they are spinning their wheels. It looks to me more like a web. Reserve the Reserve for what it was meant for. Leave the Active MIlitary in the role it was designed to fil. Be damned if you think I want them patrolling my streets under Bushes command.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on October 01, 2005, 11:03:09 PM
QuoteVery interesting to see what comes out of the mouths of jetisonned cronies when they no longer have access to their speech-writers, isn\'t it? *whistles*

But some of it seems to be so clear and honest
QuoteFrom NY Times

BROWN: Congressman, to me this has been one of my frustrations over the past three years, has been the emaciation of FEMA.

And I don\'t want to debate the issue of whether FEMA should be in or outside the Department of Homeland Security. To me, that\'s missing the point.

The point is that FEMA\'s resources have dwindled. FEMA\'s financial resources have dwindled. FEMA\'s personnel resources have dwindled.

A combination of two things there. One is a brain drain, as senior-level people find it more attractive to go to the private sector as they get closer to retirement age; that\'s a natural progression. But the inability of us to develop any sort of career path within FEMA that encourages people to join it.

And then that\'s exacerbated by the fact that we have stretched the men and women of FEMA so thin, many of them, particularly in the regions, doing two or three jobs, filling two it or three different roles, that I have predicted privately for several years that we were going to reach this point, because of the lack of resources and the lack of attention being paid to what was, certainly when Director Allbaugh and I showed up here, a very robust organization.

And that\'s not been, not because the president doesn\'t support FEMA. The president supports FEMA totally. I think the president\'s behind the organization 100 percent.

But as we\'ve gone through these changes with the focus on terrorism, as we\'ve gone through the merger and then the 2SR process through DHS, resources have just been moved, used to other things, different priorities have come in place.

Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 03, 2005, 09:46:33 AM
who wants to lay odd on whether they will find some way NOT to hold elections come the "end" of Bush\'s second term?  i mean, if we\'re in a military state for some "unforeseen" reason, who would hold elections?

that\'s worse case scenario, naturally, but these are scary times, very scary times.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on October 03, 2005, 11:47:36 AM
Why would a marionette warrant such drastic measures? surely there is another one available for purchase.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 03, 2005, 01:44:19 PM
 ;D  the king of marionette\'s likes wearing the crown...

(http://www.gkg-arts.com/american%20president%20puppet%20-%20cropped%202.jpg)
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: oldfolkie on October 03, 2005, 04:20:22 PM
What a lovely illustration for such a scary thought... :o

Of course, I\'d be in total denial if I said that thought hadn\'t crept across my mind\'s horizon.  ::)
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 03, 2005, 04:24:03 PM
nothing is too terrifying to be believed as possible - i get knocked on that painting though, for being to "cheerful"...  then again i\'m too gloomy in others... sigh...

lovely to see your work on PAW\'s site too!!
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on October 03, 2005, 07:10:40 PM
Comon! That is a simply wonderful painting! I think you captured the very essence of the "What A Big Joke It All Is" nature of the subject. Do you mind if I borrow a copy of the bitmap gkg?
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 04, 2005, 09:18:08 AM
Quote...you captured the very essence of... "What A Big Joke It All Is"...
Thank you!

sure, depending on whatcha wanna use it for i\'m all for loaning it to ya - maybe PM me if it\'s a private or detailed thing?
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: dirtface on October 04, 2005, 11:50:14 AM
Nothing much. I just like it want to have the opportunity to proudly display it on my PC from time to time. It will not be distributed by me and I will not post it anywhere. Then again, you already did which basically puts it out there anyway...
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 04, 2005, 12:06:50 PM
LOL!! it\'s out there to be viewed and sure, you can put it on your PC for viewing...

i know you understand, but for others who might not, just as the music on the web is not for resale or use without credit and compensation, art posted on the web is not free of copyright.  that\'s why when i post and image i do it from my site and not a freedumpbucket, so that my copyright remains tied to the image.
Title: Re: NOLA, and other disasters
Post by: gkg on October 06, 2005, 11:26:34 AM
http://www.picassodreams.com/

this site has a lot of interesting things, including eye witness accounts in NOLA and a good list of FEMA blocked relief efforts... worth a good long browse.